So You're Divorcing a Narcissist

In this episode, I’m diving into a topic that so many of you have been asking about—narcissists. After seeing just how much this subject resonates, I wanted to share my personal experiences and insights, especially when it comes to covert narcissism and how it shows up in relationships. I walk you through what I’ve learned, what I’ve lived, and why recognizing these patterns can be so complicated—and honestly, frustrating.

We also get into the real-life impact of dealing with a narcissist during marriage and divorce. From manipulation and control to the tough decisions you have to make when planning your exit, I’m sharing what I wish I knew sooner. If you’ve ever questioned your reality, your strategy, or your next move in a toxic relationship, this episode will absolutely speak to you. 

Episode Highlights

[0:21] - Why narcissism is such a hot topic right now and how I identified covert narcissism in my own life

[2:15] - Can narcissists actually change? The truth about therapy and manipulation

[3:43] - The illusion narcissists create vs. who they really are behind closed doors

[5:37] - Strategic decisions during a toxic divorce—should you stay or leave the house?

[7:13] - The importance of planning a safe exit and seeking professional help in abusive situations

[9:02] - Why I didn’t give a “heads up” before filing for divorce—and why you shouldn’t either

[10:42] - Practical planning: gathering financial documents, money, and protecting yourself

[12:30] - What happens when the financial rug gets pulled out from under you during divorce

[14:00] - How I survived financially and why preparation is everything

Be sure to follow, share, and leave a comment if this show resonates with you! Send me a message atpodpage.com/themusicoflife to share your experiences, or to leave a comment. I'd love to feature it in a future episode. Check me out on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/caryn-levitt-8a09263a6/

Transcript

Caryn Portnoy: 0:02

Hi everyone, and welcome to the music of Life. I'm your host. Karen Portnoy, before I get into this episode, please comment, ask questions, share some of your experiences, and don't forget to subscribe. Hi everyone. I was recently going through my social media reels to see what topics are the most popular and viewed and loved, and it's undeniable. Everyone wants to hear about narcissists, so that's what this episode will be about today. So there seems to be this explosion of narcissists among us in our culture and society. And you know, the overarching issue is that narcissists don't believe that anything is wrong with them, nor do they believe that they have to do anything to change themselves. So what ends up happening is that there are many, many, many undiagnosed narcissists. I think the only way that you can tell unofficially is to do what I did. I searched up narcissists. Dr Ramani, who's the expert in the field. She's a published author. She's all over media in general. She's a psychologist. She is the go to person for Marc, for everything narcissist. So I went to her website, and I looked up there are many different categories of narcissists, and the one that jumped out at me regarding my situation was covert narcissist, and that's actually a very popular one, if you can say that. So I don't expect my ex husband anytime soon to go get diagnosed by anybody officially. So for me, he checked all the boxes for covert narcissist, but you know, he would forever deny that anything is remotely close to him. The second thing is, people often ask, can they ever change? And the simple answer is, is that if they acknowledge that they had such toxic behavior and so many red flags and destructive and manipulative be and controlling behavior, I mean any of those things and so much more, yeah, if they recognize that they had these toxic traits and behaviors they could change if they wanted to. They could go to therapy to work on it and and make big strides in their life and the people around them and all of that, but they'll never do that. And and those that do, they go to therapy to manipulate therapy, meaning the therapist identifies what their issues are and why they're toxic, and what their traumas may be from their childhood and all the things from their past that made them who they are today. And the bottom line is, is that they'll take that information and use it to manipulate their life or the people around them in their life. So it's kind of like, you know, be careful what you wish for, because, you know, they'll go, they'll listen, they'll defend, they'll, you know, probably try and manipulate the therapist and and you end up with, now somebody who's even more empowered to do more damage. So it's it's very much a double edged sword here, but the majority of narcissists will not do anything to identify their narcissism. They will do nothing to work on themselves to make their life better or make the lives of others better. You know, everything revolves around what serves them, what benefits them, what what needs can they get met. And it's not about anybody else but them. The illusion, though, is that they're so caring, they're so giving, they're so generous, they're so helpful. You know, you know what I'm talking about. So there's also a lot of interest in, do narcissists cheat? Like, are they known to cheat? And I will say in in my situation, which is the only thing I can speak about, I looked at cheating in a different way. I don't believe he cheated on me with another woman, but there were many instances within our marriage and certainly in our divorce, where he cheated the system. He cheated getting away with things. He cheated when he lied about. The things that he did that were not of the up and up, if you get my drift, in a lot of cases, though, and a lot of people that I hear from on social media, they they do cheat with other people, which, I mean, look, cheating is cheating, and it's just as devastating in whatever form it is. It's betrayal. It's lying, it's deceiving. It's meant to protect them and hurt you when you find out, because you always will. One of my more popular reels talks about, you know, when you're in a toxic divorce, do you stay in the house while you're divorcing, or do you leave? And do you have a place to go if you decide to leave? It's something that people really need to think about strategically, like, think it all the way through if you're thinking of leaving, what's your plan? What, what money do you have to sustain yourself? What? Who are you going to live with if you can't afford to live by yourself? And how is that going to go? You know, there are a lot of factors and a lot of variables, so you really have to consider those things. You know, if there are kids involved, other kids coming with you. So lots of things to think about. And you know, most attorneys will advise you not to leave the house, because then you know your ex can claim abandonment, and then you lose all your power, and it's a shit show. So most attorneys will say, if you can stay in the house, you should, however, the caveat here is, if there is physical abuse going on, and in which case, you shouldn't stay in the house, but you must contact a domestic violence hotline in your area and get professional advice and and recommendations to how to leave the house safely, because oftentimes you are leaving will escalate things even more, and you don't want that. So you definitely need the help and support of someone like a domestic violence person or a therapist or somebody who is qualified to guide you out of the house safely, that's first and foremost. So never just pack your bags and go it's you got to plan for that too. Hey, I just want to take a minute and tell you about the divorce mentorship program that I created. It's called becoming whole again, and I created it mostly for women who were either considering divorcing their toxic spouse, or they're in the middle of a toxic divorce, or they're on the other side of a toxic divorce, at any stage that you're dealing with the emotional fallout from a horrific, toxic divorce, you know what I mean, the text, the triggers, the berating, the harassment, the threats, all those things. I've been there and I know what you're going through. This isn't therapy, I promise. This is real, hands on support from somebody who has been where you are. I survived it. I thrived from it, and I've actually transformed from it. And along the way, I've gained so much wisdom from a spiritual healing journey that I am so happy to share with you and help you. It's not about fixing you, it's not about telling you what to do. It's about guiding you and guiding you back to yourself. There are so many people out there who need this, I promise you, I hear from them daily. Thank you for your support and thank you for listening. Okay, now back to the show. You know, some people had questioned me why I didn't tell my ex husband earlier that I was heading for divorce. And with narcissists, you can't give them a heads up, because you need your power, you need your wits about you to be able to plan for your exit. And women are planners. Let me tell you something. I spent eight to nine months prior to filing for divorce clearly communicating what I was unhappy about in the marriage. I mean, we both weren't happy, for sure, but he was not interested in doing anything to change anything, and anytime I brought up a conversation about it, he stonewalled me every single time. So it was one hand clapping, one person communicating, and the other person was just kind of ignoring it and sticking his head in the sand. I mean, that's definitely not a way to improve a marriage. For sure, but I think over the nearly 20 years that we were married, he just, he took me for granted, and just, you know, anytime I had mentioned that I was upset about something or wanted something to change, or wanted to work towards something, you know, it was, it fell on deaf ears, because he just wasn't interested. So in his mind, you know, I'm there, I'm there forever. I'm not I'm not going anywhere. And he didn't feel the need to nurture our marriage so and now I know why, because it was all about him the whole time, and control and all the things. So I will say that if you're dealing with a narcissist, and I guess I'm talking to the people who are considering divorcing their narcissistic spouse. So what I've said in other reels is, you know, plan ahead. Get documents together. If you have access to money, get money together. This is what I mean about planning. So What documents do you need? I mean everything financial that you can get your hands on. So you know, not just pay stubs and tax returns and insurance policies and investment accounts and retirement stuff. I mean, there are so many things. Just sit down and write a list of all the things that matter to you that will affect you. You know, the mortgage, the the a copy of the deed. I mean, look, I, if you have access. I had full access to everything, so I was able to control, you know, what documents I had because of that. And you know, I always say, try and take originals, if you can. You can always make copies later. But it's very important, because the more documents you have in your possession that they don't have in their possession. Wouldn't you rather have more than what you need and then not need them, rather than needing them and not being able to get them? So it's it's important to get as much as you can. If you're more comfortable making copies of it then make copies of it. But these are things to plan for, and you need time to do that, because once the shit hits the fan, that's it, you're going to be thrown into survival mode, and you're not going to be able to think straight. So this is what I mean about getting things together and in order and and whatever bills are in your name. I don't know. I mean, I wish that I had changed them out of my name and into his, because for me, we were living together for three years while we were divorcing, and he refused to keep the financial status quo in the home, which you're supposed to do. The moneyed spouse is supposed to do that. And I was a stay at home mom, so you know, he pretty early on, decided he was not going to pay the bills anymore, and he was supposed to legally. So it it, you know, as a stay at home mom that hurt and it hit hard, but that was what it was designed to do. So he decided that it was worth the consequences of not paying the bills than if he continued. But he was supposed to pay all the household bills until the day we divorced, and that was farther from the truth in reality. So while he was refusing to pay the bills, I had to take him back to court for emergency temporary relief, because he was supposed to be continuing to pay for everything. So eventually I got some money. It wasn't nearly enough, but I had to rely on a on an investment account that I accrued over the years that he knew about. I took $3,000 of marital money and turned it into 76,000 so that money was there for me when I needed it to live, but even though he was entitled to half of that money, I mean, it was a wash when it was put against something that I was entitled to half of. So, you know, things kind of canceled each other out at the end. But thank God that money was there for me. Meantime, I'm gonna sign off for now, and I will catch you next week. Thank you for listening and thank you for being here. Please join me every Thursday for a new episode. You can reach me on my website, which is pod page, com slash the music of life. You can leave me a voicemail, a text message. Message. You can leave your contact information if you want to be anonymous, no problem. I promise to honor that. And you can also find all of my social media platforms there as well, which is Instagram, Tiktok, Facebook and LinkedIn. Thanks again. I'll see you next week. You